The realm and region of the Men of Winter
December 5, 2008A descent to the underworld (Greek Nekuia) is a standard feature of virtually all epics. Why might that be? Does Odysseus actually descend to the underworld? What are the most important things he learns from the ghosts? What do we learn? What special heroic characteristics do you think he will need to survive his journey?
December 5th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Odysseus travels to a river flowing from the ocean and digs a hole to fill with blood (sacrifices too), as the witch Circe earlier instructed him to do to ”’attract”’ the souls of the dead. As line 564 tells us, the souls of the dead bodies rise from Erebus.
The first to appear is Elpenor, the crewman who broke his neck falling from Circe’s roof. He begs Odysseus to return to Circe’s island and give his body a proper burial. Odysseus then speaks with the Theban prophet Tiresias, who reveals that Poseidon is punishing the Achaeans for blinding his son Polyphemus. He foretells Odysseus’s fate—that he will return home, reclaim his wife and palace from the wretched suitors, and then make another trip to a distant land to appease Poseidon. He warns Odysseus not to touch the flocks of the Sun when he reaches the land of Thrinacia; otherwise, he won’t return home without suffering much more hardship and losing all of his crew. When Tiresias departs, Odysseus calls other spirits toward him. He speaks with his mother, Anticleia, who updates him on the affairs of Ithaca and relates how she died of grief waiting for his return. He then meets the spirits of various famous men and heroes and hears the stories of their lives and deaths.
December 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
I think there are many reasons for descent to the underworld in almost all epics. The descent to the underworld might be to give the reader a dark sense of what life is like in the epic. If someone powerful or very knowledgeable descends to the underworld it may show the hero of the epic could battle or in some way confront the person’s soul. The reason it is in so many epics could just be because so many people are familiar with its concept. Most people have heard the word underworld at least once in their life. It is just to give the reader a picture of the horrible place people go to after their death.
I personally do not think Odysseus actually descended to the underworld. To do that he would have to be dead. I just think there is a small passage to the underworld that living mortals can cross into to get to the underworld.
Overall I don’t think there are many things Odysseus learned from the ghosts. From Elpenor I think Odysseus learned to honor the dead and to give them a proper burial. He might have learned to always fulfill your duty no matter if it means going against friends or family. This was when Odysseus was guarding the blood from Elpenor and his own mother. He did not let anyone drink the blood until he found Tiresias. I think we can learn the same thing Odysseus learned. This is to always fulfill your duty even if it means going against friends or family (it should not be anything bad though).
In the rest of Odysseus’ journey he will need to show many heroic characteristics. He will have to show great leadership in order to protect himself and his crew from the perils ahead. He must be more determined than ever in order to get back home. He has to stop being arrogant so he does not anger the gods any further. He will have to have a sense of confidence or pride to motivate him to get back home. Overall he will have to be more clever and cunning than he ever was to fight all the great perils and to trick the angry gods in order to get back to Ithaca.
December 5th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
A decent into the underworld is a feature of almost all epics. In the Odyssey as we have just read today, Odysseus decends into the underworld. The sea nymph Circe has an island out in the middle of the ocean. Odysseus’ men all land, and greet Circe. One of Odysseus’ men dies here, and Circe says in order to return home safely, he must decend into the underworld. He sails his ship to the end of the ocean, and slowly decends into the realm of the Men in Winter. I believe that the “Men of Winter” refers to the ghosts in the underworld that are cold and creepy. So anyway, Odysseus and his men prepare a sacrifice to bring out Tiresias. Then, they met their shade friend Elpenor, who had died on Circe’s island. They promised to give him a proper burial. Then the shade Tiresias came. He told Odysseus the right way to get home. Then Odysseus and his men left the underworld.
A decent into the underworld is a standard feature of almost all epics. I believe this is the case because the fact of the people seeing the dead is cuch an amazing feat for a story. The fact the Odysseus gets to reunite with all of his army again is very cool. There is alot to write about in a story when your in the land of the dead. Homer described the soldiers in their armor, the shades trying to suck the blood out of the pool. It just makes a novel more “epic”.
The ghosts tell Odysseus many important things. Tiresias tells Odysseus not to kill the sacred cows. He also tells him all of the monsters that will come up in the story. He tells him the route he shall take, and how to get home safely. We all know from reading Edith Hamilton though, that he will not return home safely.
Lastly, Odysseus will need many heroic qualities to survive his long trip. He will need bravery to lead his men through all of these dangerous places. He will need to make very good decisions, like not to see the Sirens. Odysseus will especially need his contending to get past all of the dangerous events that will occur, but he is the master in all ways of contending.
December 5th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Odysseus travels to a river flowing from the ocean and digs a hole to fill with blood (sacrifices too), as the witch Circe earlier instructed him to do to ”’attract”’ the souls of the dead. As line 564 tells us, the souls of the dead bodies rise from Erebus.
The first to appear is Elpenor, the crewman who broke his neck falling from Circe’s roof. He begs Odysseus to return to Circe’s island and give his body a proper burial. Odysseus then speaks with the Theban prophet Tiresias, who reveals that Poseidon is punishing the Achaeans for blinding his son Polyphemus. He foretells Odysseus’s fate—that he will return home, reclaim his wife and palace from the wretched suitors, and then make another trip to a distant land to appease Poseidon. He warns Odysseus not to touch the flocks of the Sun when he reaches the land of Thrinacia; otherwise, he won’t return home without suffering much more hardship and losing all of his crew. When Tiresias departs, Odysseus observes another spirit: his mother, who died of grief waiting for his return to Greece.
I think that Odysseus will need to get some patience, courage, and determination to overcome these fated hardships and return to Greece.
December 5th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Odysseus travels to a river flowing from the ocean and digs a hole to fill with blood (sacrifices too), as the witch Circe earlier instructed him to do to ”’attract”’ the souls of the dead. As line 564 tells us, the souls of the dead bodies rise from Erebus.
The first to appear is Elpenor, the crewman who broke his neck falling from Circe’s roof. He begs Odysseus to return to Circe’s island and give his body a proper burial. Odysseus then speaks with the Theban prophet Tiresias, who reveals that Poseidon is punishing the Achaeans for blinding his son Polyphemus. He foretells Odysseus’s fate—that he will return home, reclaim his wife and palace from the wretched suitors, and then make another trip to a distant land to appease Poseidon. He warns Odysseus not to touch the flocks of the Sun when he reaches the land of Thrinacia; otherwise, he won’t return home without suffering much more hardship and losing all of his crew. When Tiresias departs, Odysseus observes another spirit: his mother, who died of grief waiting for his return to Greece.
I think that Odysseus will need to get some patience, courage, and determination to overcome these fated hardships and return to Greece.
Odysseus’ remaining men may be a problem too. In history, we learned that Alexander the Great failed to conquer India because his troops refused to move unless they were marching home. Even if Odysseus isn’t trying to attack a city like he already did, his little army may become exhausted and reluctant to continue home, and may even lose their homesickness like in the lotus-eater scene.
December 5th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
In this chapter of the epic, we see new characteristics unveiled by our protagonist Odysseus. We see sympathy and compassion for his lost shipmate, and grief associated with his mother’s death. Her demise had occurred after Odysseus had left for Troy. This hero needs to learn to listen to his crewmen for input, this was displayed in the episode with Cyclops, while his ship mates were pleading for Odysseus to stop teasing the beast he just kept provoking the animal. In order to survive, Odysseus needs several traits, some of which he already possesses. He needs bravery, skill in many areas (the man skilled in all ways of contending) and compassion to be able to lead his men well.
After his tangle with Cyclops, Odysseus and his crewmates learn that he is now destined to journey to the realm of Hades- the land of the dead. He must consult a blind prophet, Tiresians to determine what they would encounter next on their treacherous journey. So Odysseus sacrifices several livestock to the ghosts, because they are drawn to blood. Like Sean, I don’t think he actually journeyed to the underworld- the underworld kind of came to him when the ghosts of many flooded at the sight of blood. None however he would let through save when he saw the prophet. Then he meets a deceased shipmate- Elpenor, whom they had left unburied on Circe’s island. He promised to give him a proper funeral when they returned. Soon after he sees his mother, and weeps at the sight of her death. Odysseus does not let either of the loved one’s through. Then, finally- Tiresians is present.
After taking some of the sacrificial blood- the prophet tells the hero of his and his sea mates’ fates. He tells of the cattle of the sun god Helios- and that they will be tempted to slaughter them when they anchor near the island on which they are kept. That is they restrain- each will find a safe passage home. But if they slay the kine, every man would die save him- and even then Odysseus would wander for years and then return home under a strange sail. Then the Tiresians foresees that Odysseus would slaughter all of his wife’s suitors and then sacrifice many cattle to the gods- especially to Poseidon. Lastly, the hero would die on the sea, old aged and weary. From this visit we learn new qualities that Odysseus is capable of, and we learn his fate.
December 5th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
sorry i meant “that if they restrained”
December 6th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
First off, (why do I always start like this?) I’m sorry I’m so critical all the time this is due to me being part of the first generation born in America for my family and my family is Asian (this leads to EXTREMELY Great Expectations as some people in this class probably know from experience) also, I used to be a little of a perfectionist, so when I notice errors I get annoyed. I’ll try to stop correcting all your posts now.
I agree with Sean about how someone going to the underworld shows strength in the character, but I’m not sure what you mean about confronting a soul
I think that almost all epics include traveling to the underworld to show how heroic and truly epic the heroes are. Also, it gives a chance to show their weaknesses, like fear, sympathy, and other extremely human traits. Odysseus does not actually go to the underworld. He is outside of it near where the underworld and mortal world meet. Odysseus learns that he can safely return home, but only if him and his men leave Helios’ cattle alone. Of course, the men had to kill them to eat it even though they were told not to. This resulted in Odysseus’ men to all die, leaving him the sole survivor, battling monsters, and going on epic journeys. All this time he is in danger and is miserable.
He also learned that one of his men died at an island without a burial. He needed to be buried or his soul would be unhappy. Also, Odysseus learned that he must go to a land where they do not know the sea, and sacrifice a fair offering to Poseidon. Then he must perform hecatombs for the gods in order. Then Odysseus would die a painless death. We learn from the dead and his soldiers, that Odysseus has to do some things before he can continue, like burying his friend.
Odysseus needs to be courageous, have (mental and physical) strength, and intelligence to survive the trip home to Ithaca. His courage in taking on the journey, his strength to endure in the adventures he is forced to undergo, and his intelligence to keep him alive during them.
December 6th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
In many stories, there is always a problem and a solution. Something bad always happens and something good happens as well. In this part of the story, when Odysseus travels to the underworld, he is experiencing something bad, but we also discover something new about him. While he’s in the underworld, he sees his mother, which makes him cry. We have never seen this in him; sadness.
I think Odysseus will need to be braver in this part of the journey. Although he already very brave, it will be harder in the underworld because there are so many ghosts and non-living people (which I have to admit is pretty scary). But it’s not necessarily scary because of the ghosts. It’s scary because he doesn’t know when he will get home. And not only that, but Poseidon is going to make his journey home even harder.
I agree with Sean. I do not think that Odysseus actually descended to the underworld because he didn’t really die. There might be a way for living people to reach it. Or maybe Hades helped him?
December 6th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
December 6th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
A decent to the underworld is a standard in nearly all the Greek myths. This might be for a few reasons. The reason why is probably because through the underworld they want to show the place where most mortal men go to after their death. It might also be to show how the Greeks think the after like will be like. We can see though Odysseus’ decent to the underworld that they think that when they go to hades in their afterlife that it is a very grim place. Also, it shows us that the dead are attracted to blood.
Odysseus did go into the underworld. He needed to go there because he needed tiresias, a prophet to tell him how to get home.
In order to get into the underworld he would need to make a sacrifice to the dead. Sweet wine, sweet milk and honey, water, and barley was what he offered as a sacrifice. He the swore his best black lamb as a sacrifice to Tiresias. There was a few people that he’s met there that he knew before he saw Tiresias. one of the people that he met there was one of his his men that have died in Cerce’s island because he was drunk. It was Elpenor. Odysseus wept for him. Elpenor told him the story of how he died and said the he waned a proper burial and his oar to mark it. another onr of the people that he met there was his mother who wasn’t dead when Odysseus left for Troy. He grieved at he sight of her, but for both Elpenor and His mother he did not let them come close to the blood even though they were very dear to him. This shows that he was still a very determined man even through all the emotions that he’s going through. Finally Tiresias has arrived. he said to Odysseus to let him taste the blood and then after that he will tell him what to do. So he tasted the blood and told him. On the way home the prophet ells him to avoid the cattle of Helios or face destruction. He also tells him that when he arrives home there will be trouble there and men will be courting his wife as well.
After hearing all these things to come, what motive does he really have going home? Odysseus and his crew still venture on though. Besides Odysseus’ incredible determination he still wants to go home because he loves his family so much, and where else is there to go for him but home? When the Trojan war began he didn’t even want to leave his family then because he loves them so much. Now Odysseus is starting his long journey home. For him, in order to survive his journey he would need a few things, some of which he already has. He needs his love for his famly and concrete determination to get home and this he already has. courage, intelligence, patience, and hope are the important heroic characteristics that he needs for his dangerous journey back home.
I agree with Matt that Odysseus would need his contending to get home. also that he is the master of contending and that has helped a lot throughout his life
December 6th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
I believe that trips to the Underworld are common in epics for many reasons, depending on one’s opinion. It may be because they highlight where mortal souls go to die, like Josh said. Or maybe all adventurers in epics have to at one time or another come in contact with death. Maybe it’s because no matter what, life and death are linked and interwoven.
Odysseus does descend to the Underworld, because he needed to find Tiresias, who could tell him his future. He learns from the ghosts that no one ever simply disappears, even when they disappear from your memory. He also learns that all final wishes should be respected, and he makes sure to keep his promise to a deceased shipmate that he meets.
We can learn the same values from the ghosts that Odysseus did. You may forget; but never allow yourself to fully forget loved ones, as they are still always there, whether with you or not.
To survive his journey, Odysseus must rely on his strength, cunning, and bravery. And of course, Odysseus would be nowhere without his firm belief in the art of contending.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Yeah, just to add on to what Katy and Sean were talking about, didn’t Psyche have to go to the underworld to get something from Persephone? She was going to kill herself, but someone else got it for her.
December 6th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
A descent to the underworld is so typical in mythology. I guess its because it has that “evil edge” to it. It makes things a bit more exciting. I have to admit that I like to pay attention more when Greek mythology spins into talk about the underworld. It just makes the characters more prone to danger because of all of the “creepy dead spirits.” It also may give the reader, as Sean said, a sense of what the “dark world” was like and how bad it was to die. The mood of the underworld sounds to me like a gloomy setting. When all of the ghosts came out, Odysseus was a bit fearful. If he was frightened, I would have probably fainted… I don’t know about anyone else, but I think the underworld is an interesting topic that intrigues me. That might be part of the reason for its constant appearances in mythology.
As Circe tells him, Odysseus goes down to the land of the dead to consult the blind prophet Tiresias. Supposedly, he is the one who will tell him how to get home. As he arrived in Erebus, Odysseus saw people who frightened him. He saw brides, young men, old men, girls who probably killed themselves due to their heart’s grief, and former warriors. Like I said before, he was very frightened by all of these spirits. I think he might have been overwhelmed by the sorrow of the atmosphere. He obviously learned not to die. (Wow, point out the obvious) The gloom and depression of the spirits also changed Odysseus’ mood. That is why he began to grow impatient when Tiresias did not appear.
Very importantly, Odysseus learned to honor the dead. He and his crewmembers carelessly left their former comrade, Elpenor’s body, in Circe’s hall. He dies and they did not honor his life by burying him. So when they saw Elpenor in the underworld, he asked them for a favor. He asked them to cremate him and burn all of his armor. Elpenor also asked for a monument of his oar. Odysseus somberly agreed, learning to honor his lost friend and not to anger the gods.
Odysseus also was able to learn to stay determined, even at the hardest times. While guarding the blood and waiting for Tiresias, he encountered his sad old mother’s spirit. With this, a wave of grief swept over him, for he had not been home to say goodbye to her. Still, Odysseus stood firmly over the blood, still determined. He had his mind set on what his goal was, and accomplished it although it hurt him and others in the process. I agree with Caitlin. She talks about how one never forgets about a loved one, whether they are near or far. One can never allow themselves to fully forget about a loved one. This is what Odysseus learned when he made the mistake of leaving Elpenor in Circes’ hall. He honored his body by cremating it, yet he honored their friendship by keeping a promise.
Odysseus will need many qualities to get back home. First of all, he needs resistance to be able to resist tempting things similar to the Lotus flowers and The Sirens. Also, he definitely needs to stop with the arrogance so he does not offend the gods and hinder his chances of getting home. He must be brave on his journey because there will probably be more things to fight. His leadership qualities are still needed to direct his men. (Does he have any more men? I can’t remember)
Overall, I think Odysseus is strong enough and determined enough to return home safely. After all, he’s tried for twenty years; I don’t think he’s going to give up!
December 7th, 2008 at 3:10 am
A trip to the underworld might be a feature of many epics because it teaches a man many lessons. It is also a very interesting place where anything can happen. It creates that “gothic” scene which I find kind of entertaining.
I think that Odysseus actually does descend to the Underworld unlike what Sean, Katy, and Ben had said. When he sacrificed the rams, souls gathered. These souls are from the underworld. He met his dead mother and Elpenor. They are both dead meaning their souls would be in the Underworld. You do not have to be dead to go into the Underworld. The myth about the changing seasons shows this and so do many other myths.
I somewhat agree with Sean in saying that Odysseus did not really learn anything from the ghosts. I bet there is something, but I am just not grasping it. I guess Odysseus learned that he did not want to die. He felt as though the souls are not at rest there. Therefore, he might have wanted to go home alive.
I think he would need courage and bravery to fight through the obstacles that come his way. He would also need perseverance and determination. After ten long years, it would be terrible to break down just days from home. He must be able to stay positive and be optimistic so that he would be able to make it to his wife, child, and homeland. I agree with Emilia that Odysseus would need to stop being arrogant, although he is human.
December 7th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
In “The Land of the Dead,” Odysseus descends to the Underworld. Unlike what Gabi and Sean said, I believe he learned many things. Firstly, I think his desire to return home became even greater when he saw his mother there, dead. He must have felt that the long years apart from his family had been worse than he had thought; considering he had missed his mother’s passing. Also, it was said that the Underworld was as far away from home as anyone can possibly be, and as we discussed in class, as you get farther from your home, the more scared and homesick one will become. So besides Odysseus’ homesickness increasing, he also felt extremely bad for his friend Elpenor because he had not buried him at all. Odysseus and his crew had left Elpenor dead and forgotten, and not burying a friend was a sin in those days. So Elpenor requests that he be cremated (a hero’s burial), be given a funeral and a monument placed in his honor, with his oar on it. Odysseus gladly agrees; for seeing him there in the Underworld must have made him feel greatly sympathetic towards the old friend.
Another thing that Odysseus had to do in the Underworld was keep the sacrifice away from Elpenor and his own mother. He needed the blood for Tiresians, so he could be told how to get home. This must have been hard for Odysseus, but again his character trait of perseverance and determination comes out, and he knows that he has a duty to fulfill, and waits and waits for Tiresians to come.
Agreeing with Gabi, I think that Odysseus actually does descend to the Underworld. Like Gabi said, in the myth with the seasons, the girl was not dead and she had been considered “in the Underworld.” Also, what does Odysseus do to prove that he would not be in the Underworld? He can see the ghosts and souls, he could converse with Elpenor and Tiresians, and lastly, he could give Tiresians a sacrifice. There is nothing that proves that you have to be dead to “descend to the Underworld.”
The trip to the Underworld may come into many books because it gives a hero something to overcome, like an antagonist, only not in human form. After heroes fight all of the “bad guys” what else is there left for them to do? In conflicts, there can be “Person versus Person,” but also, “Person versus nature,” and “Person versus Self.” After Odysseus wins the Trojan War, he is considered the “Best of the Best,” there is no other person that can beat him. So Homer gives the Victorious Odysseus something else to fear: Nature, and himself. The Underworld can be considered Nature because it his surroundings that he is fighting with. As we can all tell from this story, Odysseus is scared and nervous in this unknown place. His fearless characteristics all but vanish, and it wasn’t even someone there to do it; but rather the idea that he is in the Underworld. Also, he is fighting against himself because he is fighting the sadness and grief of seeing his friend Elpenor and his mother there, dead. He feels bad, and blames himself. So Odysseus’ weakness seems to not be the human form of fear, but Nature, and himself.
Finally, I think that the characteristics that Odysseus will need to complete the rest of his journey are the willpower to keep on going, no matter what gets in his way, and the bravery to overcome his new fears. Also, agreeing with what Emilia said, he has to resist the temptation to eat things like the Lotus plants, and most of all: remember the reason he is doing all of this; which is to return to his home sweet home.
December 7th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Most epics include a journey to the underworld. Like Sean, I do not believe that our hero, Odysseus traveled to the underworld, for he created some sort of portal that allowed the ghosts to reach him. The ghosts were described as in the forms of people, that were more or less transparent. When creating this passageway, he dug a hole and poured milk and honey, wine, and water and threw barley into the pit. After this, he sacrificed a black sheep and a ewe. This may sound like a waste of time for most people, but he did this with reason. He wanted to know how he would return back to his home in Ithica. Had he not done this, he would not have been able to find his way back and eventually end the myth…
As people learn from others, people can still learn from the dead. One of the ghosts that he came across was the ghost of Elpenor. Odysseus was shocked when he saw his dear friend and wept. When asking why he was dead, the dear fellow replied that he partied too hard, got drunk and fell off of a ladder…quite depressing. Elpenor then requests Odysseus to build him a memorial and cremate him. Because of his terrible folly, Odysseus agreed to do it. This teaches that all must respect the dead with a proper funeral.
Odysseus of course, in my opinion is the best hero ever. In order to be a hero, one is required to have heroic qualities. A heroic quality that is greatly shown in the scene was guilt. Odysseus was very guilty for not noticing that his friend was dead until he opened the underworld. I would’ve felt terrible if a close friend of mine got too drunk and fell off a ladder too. Perhaps he also felt guilty because he could have probably saved Elpenor. (at least, I think that would be possible). What really broke my heart was when Odysseus laid his eyes on the spirit of his mother. I found it to be utterly heart breaking. I suppose that it’s okay for heroes to have hearts too. ? Despite all of this, Odysseus has to stay strong and courageous during his journey (that the Cyclops created for him (gee, how generous)). For, his days will be dark…
December 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
In Greek mythology, the underworld is a standard feature of most epics. The idea of an underworld gives the reader a horror and gothic view during the story. The underworld also brings a sense of mystery and curiosity. For example, during the whole trip down into the underworld, I was thinking about what Tiresias’s prediction would be. Now that Tiresias has given his prediction, the reader is more interested to see how it comes through. The underworld is also used as a counter-point. It contrasts Odysseus’s heroic side and sympathetic side. I relate the underworld to Miss Havisham’s house in Great Expectations and Boo Radley in To Kill a Mockingbird. The underworld also shows the Greeks were civilized because they believed in an afterlife and religion. Odysseus does not actually descend to the underworld because he does not die. He digs a pit and then uses water, honey, milk, wine, barley and cow’s blood to attract the ghosts of the underworld to come up.
From Odysseus’s trip to the underworld, many important aspects of the Odyssey are developed. Odysseus learns from the ghost of Elpenor that his dead body is unburied on Circe’s island so Odysseus should go cremate him and make a monument for his burial. Back on Circe’s island, the witch gives him important advice about his journey. From Tiresias, Odysseus is greatly forewarned about the cattle of the sun god and not to kill them. Odysseus also learns that Poseidon is still angry about what he did to Polyphemus, and that when Odysseus reaches home, angry suitors will be at his house. In the underworld, Odysseus shows qualities that will help him reach home. He shows his compassion and sympathy as well as maintaining his determined and brave attitude. Agreeing with Maggie, I think Odysseus will need bravery, his constant motivation to reach home, his skill of contending and his compassion and care for his family and crew.
December 7th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Like Emilia, the Underworld is a topic that interests me. It’s fun to learn about all the spirits. It’s an exciting and spooky topic.
In this chapter of Odysseus’s adventures, we learn some more about Odysseus’s personality and characteristics. Circe told Odysseus to go down to the Underworld and consult the blind prophet Tiresias. Tiresias would tell Odysseus how to get home. Odysseus had to sacrifice his best ram and other things that could have been extremely useful to him in the future. After he made the sacrifices, spirits came out of the ground. When the spirits come out from the Underworld, a man that used to be a crewmember on Odysseus’s ship went up to him. He asked Odysseus to make a memorial for his body and Odysseus said he would. This action shows that Odysseus can be sympathetic. Also, Odysseus’s mother came out of the ground. Odysseus was griefstricken because she had been alive before Odysseus left, so she must’ve died when he had been away. Odysseus stayed determined to gaurd the blood, even though he had to keep his own mother away.
Odysseus was frightened when all the spirits came out of the ground. It’s hard to imagine the great hero Odysseus being scared, but when you think about it, he isn’t a god, he is still human(even though a hero). It must have been really unnerving to see a bunch of dead people coming out of the earth! Odysseus was very determined to keep the ghosts away from the sacrificial blood. He had to ward off his own mother and a huge amount of spirits.
Like Maggie and Sean said, Odysseus never really went into the Underworld. The spirits came up to him from the Underworld. He knew the spirits were drawn to blood, so he slew his ram and waited for Tiresias. Tiresias told him to aviod slaughtering the cattle of the sun god, Helios. If the crew and Odysseus slaughter the cattle, they would never get home. All the crewmembers would die trying to save Odysseus and Odysseus would roam and die on the sea. He would never get home.
December 7th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Heroes going to the underworld gives the reader another perspective on life – what we look like in the third person, in retrospect. The forgotten people’s stories are cleared up. A descent to the afterlife also gives the hero a preview of what is to come after all of their deeds – a life of lusting after blood sacrifices and a dreary eternity. Odysseus’s fear of the dead is understandable, and prompts him to make the best of what he does. It shows him what will inevitably happen if he doesn’t get back home – does he really want to go here without seeing his family again?
Like Maggie and Sean, I doubt that Odysseus ever actually went into the underworld. He made a sacrifice to draw them near; if he made a sacrifice to the gods, would he make it on Mount Olympus? He summons them. You don’t have to summon anything if they’re where you are. He learns from Tiresias that he is to die at sea, and from Elpenor to cremate him as as final request. He is also not to steal Apollo’s cattle; otherwise he will never come back home. Poseidon is still slighted by his attacking Polyphemus, and he will come back to a house full of suitors propositioning his wife. He will need the capacity to resist his own desires, a fierce determination, and a willingness to carry out everything he does, even if his comrades die.
December 7th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
The Underworld is a very common region that is explored by or traveled to by the heroes of many myths and epics. There can be many explanations for this pattern. In most of the myths I have read, the hero needs to go to the Underworld, not for leisure, but for a task or a quest. For instance, Hercules must travel to the underworld as one of his tasks. He travels to the underworld because he NEEDS to slay the three-headed dog Cerberus. Another example is Odysseus and quest to find Tiresias. Odysseus travels to the underworld because he NEEDS to find the prophet to ask him how to get back to Ithaca.
In this certain myth, however, Odysseus doesn’t necessarily descend into the underworld. He travels to the outer most boundaries of the illuminated earth to find the prophet, named Tiresias. I think this moment in the book is where Odysseus sets a precedent for other heroes: he portrays fear. However, I do not think it is proper that we remember the name Odysseus because of his fear. Everybody has a fear, and the only reason we have not seen other heroes cower is because they have never been exposed to their fear.
During his “descent” to the underworld he is greeted by past figures in his life, and in meeting them he learns about certain events that have occurred during his absence in Ithaca. He learns of his mother’s death and Elpenor’s miserable travel to the underworld. While at the boundary of light and dark he is forced to do something, certainly I would not be able to do. He wards off his mother with a sword, while crying tears that no hero will be able to hold back.
Odysseus is not the only one that learns something during his journey to the prophet. We, the readers, also learn something. As I wrote before, we learn that even heroes have fears. Fear is naturally installed in the human brain, and Odysseus, being a human, reveals his fear when he is surrounded by blood thirsty shades.
After listening to the prophet’s insight, I think that Odysseus will need to use his many heroic qualities. He must be determined and must be filled with perseverance to be able to pass all of the obstacles the gods throw in his way. Another very important trait he must reveal is acceptance. Once he reaches home he must accept the fact that nobody might be there to support him. He has been gone for so long, the people might not recognize him as the king of Ithaca but as the stranger who wanders the
December 7th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Like many other Greek myths, the Odyssey involves the gloomy underworld. I felt that like Emilia said, it gives an “evil edge” to the myths. When I imagine underworld, I imagine gray, dark, mist, and moaning, which seems to be the stereotype when most people think of “underworld,” and I think that goes back to Greek mythology being an influence to modern culture and literature today. One thing that kind of confused me was whether or not Odysseus really entered the underworld. On one level, I agree with Sean and always thought that one had to be dead to be able to enter the underworld. If on did not, why did Laodamia, the wife of Protesilaus who the first Greek to die on Trojan land, kill herself to be with her husband? If she could have been able to go to the underworld and see him, why would she kill herself? On a different note, Odysseus should have been in the underworld to encounter all of those spirits such as his mother and Elpenor, an unburied man from his crew. On the other hand, it has been possible for many characters to be able to enter the underworld. For instance, Orpheus entered the underworld for Eurydice. In my opinion, I guess that Odysseus entered the underworld. After all, it’s not like seeing random and spooky spirits surrounding blood is a typical thing in the human world.
Odysseus learned many important things from the ghosts. One thing was the Odysseus learned that his mother, Anticlea, who was alive before he left for Troy, was dead. Also, Odysseus learned that none of his men should ever slay any of the cows of the god Helios. If the men do not, then all of the men and the ship shall return. If they do, then all of the men and ships shall be destroyed, Odysseus will be alone for years until he gets a ship from foreigners to return home. Even when he does return home, he will find others wasting his possessions, eating his food and livestock, and courting his wife. Therefore, Odysseus learns to avoid these cows and from Tiresias, he learns of what to expect if his crew does not behave.
Aside from the foreshadowing of these two futures, the reader learns a lot about Odysseus’ character. Everyone knows Odysseus as brave and clever from the Iliad and Trojan horse. From the event with the Cyclops, Polyphemus, everyone learned that Odysseus is also proud when he boasted excessively upon the crew’s objection. Here, we learn of a different side of Odysseus. We see the more human traits. He appears to not be all brave and masculine, but in a way, real, human, I guess, vulnerable in some aspects, like an Achilles heel. He is so strong, but has his human points. When he sees his mother, who was alive before Troy, he cried, wept, and grieved for her. When he sees Elpenor, he is sympathetic and weeps for his lost and unburied friend.
On his rough journey to come, Odysseus will have to possess certain heroic characteristics. He will have to be strong, clever, and enduring. His confidence will allow him to face the coming monsters and troubles ahead, but he will have to lower his arrogance level as Matt said so that he does not further anger the gods. Like Maggie and Steven said, Odysseus will need compassion like in the land of the lotus eaters, to care for his crew.
December 7th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
In our most recent read chapter, ‘The Land of the Dead’ Odysseus travels to the underworld. His boat lands ashore of yet another distant land after he departed from the Cyclopes. Odysseus poured sweet milk, honey, wine, and clear water around a pit. Then he scattered barley at the bottom of the pit. He sacrificed his ram and his ewe. He slaughtered his handsomest black lamb in all of his flock, and his best heifer before she calved. As the sacrifice ceremony continues, souls of the dead gathered, stirring out of Erebus, a dark region under the earth through which the dead pass before entering the realm of Hades. Souls of brides, young men, men grown old in pain, tender girls whose hearts were new to grief, and the battle-slain, bearing still their bloody gear.
Odysseus grew with fear. I was very pleased when i discovered this. His fear reminds me that Odysseus is still a human hero, he is not a god, therefore he has emotions that generally gods do not.
The men came across their old companion that was killed earlier in the epic, Elpenor. The man explains to Odysseus that all he wishes is for a proper burial that he deserves. Odysseus then promises him that he will cremate him and erect a monument in his honor.
Odysseus also discovered that his dear mother had passed away. She was alive when he left for Troy to fight in the Trojan War. He saw her spirit and felt much grief, but Odysseus knew he had to stay focused and grieve later.
Shortly after discovering that his mother had died, he found himself to be standing in front of the prince of Thebes, bearing a golden staff. Odysseus lets the prince taste the sacrificial blood and told Odysseus of his fate. He states:
“‘Great captain, a fair wind and the honey lights of home are all you seek. But anguish lies ahead; the god who thunders on the land prepares it, not to be shaken from your track, implacable, in rancor for the son whose eye you blinded. One narrow strait may take you through his blows: denial of yourself, restraint of shipmates. When you make landfall on Thrinacia first and quit the violet sea, dark on the land you’ll find the grazing herds of Helios by whom all things are seen, all speech is known. Avoid those kind, hold fast to your intent and hard seafaring brings you all to Ithaca. But if you raid the beeves, I see destruction for ship and crew. Though you survive alone, bereft of all companions, lost for years, under strange sail shall you come home, to find your own house filled with trouble: insolent men eating your livestock as they court your lady. Aye, you shall make those men atone in blood! But after you have dealt out death-in open combat or by or by stealth-to all the suitors, go overland on foot, and take an oar, until one day you come where men have lived with meat unsalted, never known the sea, nor seen seagoing ships, with crimson bows and oars that fledge light hulls for dipping flight. The spot will soon be plain to you, and I can tell you how: some passerby will say, “What winnowing fan is that upon your shoulder?” Halt, and implant your smooth oar in the turf and make fair sacrifice to lord Poseidon: a ram, a bull, a great buck boar; turn back and carry out pure hecatombs at home to all wide heaven’s lords, the undying gods to each in order. Then a seaborne death soft as this hand of mist will come upon you when you are wearied out with rich old age, your country folk in blessed peace around you. And all this shall be just as I foretell.
I love how this chapter has a journey to the underworld. Many Greek myths use the symbolism of the underworld. The underworld is a dark place that is joyless and far away from home, it is where people end up when they die, and it was where Odysseus journeyed to. The Greek myths have their symbolism of dark and light, but I think the underworld is defiantly symbolizes darkness.
I agree and disagree with Sean. At first I didn’t think that Odysseus was actually in the underworld because he is not dead, but then I remembered that he’s a hero and he has special qualities that an ordinary man does not. But I agree that he was in some sort of location inside or in the perimeter of the underworld.
To conclude my blog, Odysseus traveled to the underworld and encountered many things. He discovered his mother had passed away, he buried his dead friend, and he had his future foretold by the prince of Thebes. This was a very dark chapter indeed and it was totally necessary to include the underworld at least in one chapter of one of the greatest epic poems.
December 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
A descent into the underworld is a common feature in nearly all epics. I believe this is because when humans see the horrible conditions of the underworld, they gain even more motivation to remain living. After his visit to the underworld, Odysseus probably realized he does not want to go there anytime soon, and the visit acted as an inspiration to go home. As Darra pointed out, seeing his dead mother there made his desire to return home even greater. I think a descent into the underworld may also be a standard feature because it acts as a counterpoint to the living world and brings out emotions in people. Odysseus exhibited some new emotions during his time in the underworld that we have never seen before. He was very sad upon seeing his mother dead, he was fearful to see the spirits, and he acted sympathetic toward Elpenor. Fear, sadness, and sympathy are traits Odysseus would never show outside of the underworld. Another possible reason why the underworld is included in all epics is because it’s a gothic element that adds horror, mystery, and suspense (as Steven stated).
Everybody is saying something different about whether or not Odysseus actually descended into the underworld. I think his spirit and soul were brought down while his body stayed on the outer realm. Odysseus fully experienced Hades, so I don’t really understand how the underworld “came to him.” Odysseus learned many important lessons from his descent. I think he realized the reality of how unsatisfying life after death truly is. The underworld also gave him to willpower to continue his journey. Death will always be associated with Odysseus’ feelings about the underworld from here on out, so when Odysseus thinks about death, the emotions he felt during his underworld visit will resurface, giving him the determination to go on. The ghosts also taught Odysseus many important things. Elpenor, a former crewmate, taught him to respect the dead. He asked Odysseus to cremate his corpse and make a monument out of his burial site. Odysseus felt terrible his crew had left Elpenor dead and forgotten and promised him the barrow and the burial. Odysseus also learned many important things from Tiresias. Tiresias told him that anguish lies ahead, prepared by Poseidon. The prophet also predicted destruction for his ship and crew, leaving Odysseus to survive alone. When Odysseus returns home, he will find men courting his wife and eating his livestock, and he shall kill these suitors.
Odysseus will need many heroic characteristics to survive his journey home. He will need to maintain his strength, courage, and determination. He will also need his ability to contend using his intelligent and clever mind. Odysseus’ newly acquired motivation will enable him to face every danger with ease without backing down. Using his ability and most importantly his perseverence, Odysseus will be able to return home and see his wife and kids again.
December 7th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Why is traveling to the underworld a standard feature in all epics? I wouldn’t say I know for sure, but I could give a number of possibilities. As we all know the death of characters close to the protagonist is also a standard feature of all epics. Possibly, characters must travel to the land of the dead to find and speak with those important people who they have lost. The land of the dead is such a mysterious and special place; maybe writers just can’t resist creating their own variation of it?
Odysseus did not really ‘descend to the underworld’. For one he did not literally descend, he traveled across to the spot where he spoke with ghosts. I don’t even think he really was in the underworld; my guess is that it was more likely a place where ghost could be visited or summoned, just because I think reaching the land of the dead would be different and someone more official. I didn’t think you could simply sail there and stay as long as you like, I just doubt it would work that way.
Both reader and hero learn a lot from this excursion (I’ll have to disagree with you on that point Sean). Elpenor doesn’t tell Odysseus or us much, only his fate and how he reached the land of the dead so quickly. At the presence of Anticlea Odysseus learns that his mother (Anticlea) had died while he had been at Troy. We learn the most from Tiresuas, and everything new to us is also new to Odysseus. We learn that hardships are ahead for Odysseus and what those hardships are. We learn what Odysseus can do to avoid some of this terrible fate, and we learn the two possible endings to his story.
To survive the rest of the journey home, what Odysseus will need has been hinted at by Tiresias. When he says: “One narrow strait may take you through his blows: denial of yourself, restraint of shipmates,” Tiresias tells us that Odysseus will need deny himself of strong temptations, and restrain his crew from possibly similar temptations. For this, Odysseus will need self-restraint, good leadership skills, and a shrewd sense of what is dangerous and what is benign.
December 7th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
I believe that there are many reasons why there is a descent to the underworld in most epics. It may be to show, the “evil” lurks below, or it maybe to put some adventure into the story. I just find that in epics where there is a descent to the underworld, the descending part is the most interesting. I have to agree with Emilia that the descending part is the part that I pay the most attention to in the epic. I believe that the underworld is just one of the many gothic details of the story. Nevertheless, all great pieces of literature needs to have some gothic details, no matter how small, to me. It just brings out the sense of mystery, and curiosity, as Steven says. But, almost always, the journey to the underworld is to accomplish some kind of a task, in most epics.
Viewing the comments before me, in this myth, Odysseus may have, but doesn’t necessarily need to descend to the underworld. In this epic, I believe with Gabi, that Odysseus does descend to the underworld. This for various reasons. One is that when he sacrificed the lambs, and poured the blood into the pit, ghosts came into sight. He had to dig the pit in the underworld. Odysseus was also able to speak with his mother, and Elpenor, who was left unburied in the land of Circe. If you say that no, Odysseus did not go down into the underworld, then how do you explain him digging the pit, talking to his mother? Could it all be just imagined?
I believe Odysseus learned many things from the ghosts down in the underworld including the underworld is not exactly what you think it is, and or the realization that he understood that life after death is truly unsatisfying. He probably realized that the underworld isn’t that great, and that he probably didn’t want to go there any time soon. Another thing he learned is that his mother Anticlea, who was alive when he left for Troy, was dead. As Darra pointed out, seeing his dead mother there made his desire to return home even greater. Another thing he learned, (this from the soul of the Prophet Tiresius) Is that neither him nor his men are to eat any of the cattle of the god, Helios. And that if they did, his men and ships shall perish, and that he may not return home, and if he does, he will have come home to see strangers courting his wife, and others eating his food and livestock. Aside from the revelation of the only two futures, that is possible for Odysseus, the trip to the underworld also shows the soft side of Odysseus. We see more humane traits than that of heroic. Odysseus is almost like a lobster, hard and tough on the outside, but towards the inside, he is soft. As Emilia had said, this vulnerable part of Odysseus is almost like that of Achilles heel. He is shown crying and weeping for his mother, and showing some sympathy towards his old comrade and friend, Elpenor.
In order to survive his journey home, Odysseus will need specific heroic traits including will power, which he will need lots of. Odysseus will need will power to keep on trying and never give up. He will also need intellectual abilities to survive his journey home, to survive all of the obstacles he will be challenged with. He also needs to be determined, perhaps if he has to be in a scenario like that of the land of the lotus-eaters.
Keith I had never thought of it but you are right, Tiresias doesn’t inform Odysseus much but his fate.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
A descent to the underworld is frequently found is most epic novels; there have to be more than a few reasons for this. I feel that all of the people who have already commented on this post have done an excellent job summarizing what happened in the passage that we read therefore I feel to obligation to restate what has already been said. I agree that one of the reasons for the underworld to have been included in mythology is because of its evil edge. I mean it catches the reader’s attention more so than a pretty rainbow and unicorns would so it is a reason, in my mind one of the most important of the reasons. The underworld creates a very gothic type scene and is pictured differently by different people, which also makes it more interesting, because it is not a set place. From my mind to your mind we can be picturing two completely different things, yet we’re using the same piece of information. I really like the fact about that because it makes everybody unique from one another. In most Greek epics, mortals were sent to the underworld or had to descend to the underworld to rescue someone.
I think that Odysseus did descend to the underworld but not in the same sense as other people would. In my opinion, Odysseus had help from Hades to bring him to the underworld just for the time being and Odysseus had some kind of time frame and when the time was up he either had to go back or he’d be stuck there. Another thing, I don’t think the same rules would apply for Odysseus than those to others considering that once you visit the underworld your stuck there and Odysseus managed to get out of it. I think that heroes have a different place where they descend to after they die, just as gods would. So, in view of the fact that Odysseus was a hero, the rules for coming and staying in the underworld would definitely not apply to him. I know that he did see other heroes while he was in Hades, but I think Homer might have thought differently than I and others and just didn’t believe in more than one underworld.
While in Hades, Odysseus receives guidance regarding his future and also encounters his mother’s souls. Odysseus realizes that the underworld isn’t a very exciting place to be shown by how all of the souls, “shades” as they are called were all reaching out to him to grasp at life. Odysseus therefore learns that life after death is an empty existence lacking satisfaction and also that being immortal would have the same negative look on life. Another thing that Odysseus learns is from the ghost Elpenor that his dead body is buried on Circe’s island and that he should cremate the body and properly bury it with a monument.
Lastly, Odysseus will have to possess certain characteristics commonly found in heroes in order to advance and complete his task. Odysseus needs to stay strong, remain clever, be courageous, and will have to always remain determined. If he is able to carry out all of these qualities and use them in his situations appropriately than he will finally be able to return home safely after the many hardships and will ultimately be able to see his wife and kids once again.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Journeying to the underworld is an inevitable standard of epics. I guess it shows that there is a dark side to the seemingly “perfect” world of the Greeks or perhaps it’s put in place to demonstrate that something evil is always lurking around. I definitely agree with Sean on Odysseus not really entering the underworld. I don’t see how that is possible since Odysseus didn’t die…but i think the trip was worth it. He learned a lot from the ghosts. elpenor taught him repect and honor and Tiresius informed Odysseus of the challenges to come. Odysseus was told that he might not make it home since the route was so grueling but if he did make it back home to Ithaca, he’d come home to strange men courting his wife. In the Land of the Dead, Odysseus already displayed some unusual but nevertheless heroic qualities that we had never seen before. When his mother dies, he grieves over her and begins to cry. He’s also loyal to Tiresius and compassionate. These seemingly apear to make him weak. However, he is human NOT a god so these emotions are natural Also, heroes are expected to have those qualities. In my opinion, the journey back to Ithaca will take brains, loyalty, physical as well as psychological strength, and endurance/perserverance/determination. I just noticed how odysseus relates to us more than we think he does. For example, when people have a fatal illness sometimes they are told that they only have a certain amount of time left to live and to survive you’ll have to overcome obstacles just like Odysseus was told that he might not make it back home if he didn’t surpass the obstacles.
December 7th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
There a probably millions of reasons why the settings of an epic often include the underworld. The reason why i believe that all heros in epics go to the underworld is because the underworld is like the final frontier. The only place that remains uknown, unmapped, and very mysterious. Another reason is because its forbidden for humans to go there and, all heros being rulebreakers, decide they have to go to places they’re not aloud to go. Its like the Radley house in To kill a mockingbird. Its the mysterious place that the kids are not allowed to go into and of course this tempts them greatly. Therefore because they dont know anything inside it and because its off limits, the children feel thats its there objective to look inside the house, they dont even care about the consequences of it. Another reason that all epics have a journey to the underworld is because the heros of epics always feel that they have to do something stupid after they kill somebody like not burying the body or defacing the dead person because they’re arrogant. Therefore the hero has repay the dead person and when the hero goes to the prophet the prophet tells him/her to go and find the dead person and try and redeem one’s self by offering a sacrifice.
i dont think that Odysseus actually descended into the underworld.
I remember from past myths that to reach the underworld one had to cross a river and go through a gate guarded Cerebus. I believe that Odysseus went to the place where souls are not really where Hades lives.
I believe that Odysseus did learn a few things from his trip to the underworld. One thing he learned is that his mother died while he is fighting in Troy. We are given even more clues of the fact that he is still a human despite his heroic traits. We are shown this by the fact that he cried when he saw his mother meaning that he does have a soft side. He also learns of the deciding factor of wether or not he’ll return home. He is told by the prophet Tiresias that he must not let his men raid the cattle of Helios.
Odysseus will need to show many heroic traits to reach home. One will be perserverance which he has shown and needs to continue to show in order to reach home. He will also need to be cunning and will need leadership in order to have his crew follow everything he says including tie him to the mast of the ship.
December 7th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
A descent to the underworld (Greek Nekuia) is a standard feature of virtually all epics. There are numerous well-known myths from ancient times which describe a heroine or hero’s descent into the underworld. A descent to the underworld is usually presented in a story to display morals, or wrongdoings committed by those who have malicious souls. It can powerfully motivate those to live a sin free life. Furthermore, as Gabi stated, a trip to the underworld can create “gothic scenes”, making it more entertaining for readers.
Many people in our class believe that Odysseus descended into the underworld; others do not. However, along with Ben, I agree that Odysseus does not actually go to the underworld. I believe he is at the point where the underworld and mortal world meet.
Odysseus learns something important when he travels to the land of the dead. When Odysseus discovers the ghostly presence of Anticlea, (his mother) Odysseus, heartbroken and devastated, now has an even more powerful motivation and desire to return to his homeland, Greece. From the ghosts, Odysseus learns that Poseidon is still angry about what he did to Polyphemus, and that when Odysseus reaches home, angry suitors will await him at his house (as Steven stated). Along with Keith, I believe we learn most from Tiresuas. When Tiresaus warns Odysseus that anguish lies ahead of him, I believe that it foreshadows many of the hardships that await Odysseus throughout his journey back to Greece.
There are numerous heroic qualities that Odysseus needs to survive his journey back home. Motivation, I believe, is the most important. When Odysseus meets his dead mother, he is filled with despair, for he has lost a special person whom he loves and cares deeply for. This results in his motivation, or desire to return home, for he does not want to die without seeing his family. As a hero, Odysseus needs integrity, determination, and strength throughout this treacherous journey to bring himself and the rest of his men home at last.
December 7th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
In myths, visiting the underworld is as predictable as good winning over evil. I think it’s because of how in ancient times life was all about preparing for death. Many civilizations, like Egypt, thought life was for death. So death is a thrilling scene. Something that people find interesting and engaging because no one is sure what the other side is like so when a person visits the underworld it captivates the audience and gets their attention.
I’m not sure if Odysseus descends to the underworld or if the underworld comes up to meet him. From my understanding the offering was to attract the prophet, Tiresians. All the souls wanted the blood and came up to get it. If Odysseus had actually gone down wouldn’t he have encountered Cerberus or Hades? Also, I think Homer would have pointed out that Odysseus had entered the underworld. I’m sorry to say I disagree with Keith and Katy, you do not have to die to enter the underworld, as Amila and Remi taught us in their myth, you don’t have to be deceased, and can go there alive but must stay forever if you eat anything.
Odysseus learns many important things from the ghosts. He learns, first of all, that his mother is dead. He learns what his fellow man Eleponor wishes to be done with his body. Most importantly, he learns how he can alter his future. I think its funny how Odysseus’ life events depends whether or not his crew eats cow.
Odysseus already possesses most of the Heroic qualities he will need to have on his way home. He is responsible, brave, strong, smart, sympathetic, cunning, and determined. As long as he doesn’t let his arrogance take over him, Odysseus is set for this mission.
December 8th, 2008 at 10:30 am
In almost every great Greek epic the protagonist has to journey down to the underworld, Hades. The protagonist isn’t always doing it for the same reasons as Odysseus, but they all have their own reasons.
There are many reasons why the epics always include Hades. One of these reasons is that the afterlife is one of the mysteries that the Greek religion tries to explain. These stories try to show the reader the Greek view on the afterlife.
During this part of the story Odysseus shows another characteristic. This is fear. This shows to the reader that Odysseus is not perfect. Even though Odysseus has seemed perfect at times, he really is not. As Katy said, Odysseus will have to become stronger if he wishes to have successful journey.
I do not think that Odysseus really journeyed to the underworld. If he had it would have been much harder, because he would have to pass Cerebus. I think that the sacrifice summoned the ghosts. The reason for doing this was because he just needed to consult them. He did not need anything else from Hades.
From the ghosts he learns that he should not touch the cows. He was told that if he did hurt them, he would get home after years of peril, under strange sail, and without his men. This is exactly what Polyphemus prays for, and what the synopsis infers.
January 11th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
To be honest, I actually was about to cry reading this part. The fact that he see’s his mom is very depressing. It is stated that she is alive when he first left for Troy. He is told by Circe that he has to visit the Land of the Dead because he needs to speak to the blind prophet Tiresias. The first person he meets however is a man named Elpenor. He slept on Circes roof, then fell of backwards, and broke his neck. Elpenor told Odysseus not for get him and to build a cairn above an unknown sailor’s mark. Then, he next saw his mother, Autolycus. He started to weep, but still held her off. Finally he met Tiresias. The blind prophet told him about the cattle of the sun god, Helios. He warned him, but very briefly not to eat them or do anything with them. He never gave Odysseus a reason though. Tiresias also told him about the sailors who he will face that are destroying his house, eating his livestock, and courting his wife, Penelope. We learn that his journey is not yet over, and is filled with many hardships. To survive his expedition, he needs to contain the heroic qualities of strength, leadership, and courage. His crew need a real chief to get through the challenges.