“Surely I had seen exactly such eyes and such hands on a memorable occasion very lately!”

Please read chapters 47-50.  After you finish the reading, please consider and discuss the revelations that Pip uncovers with regard to Estella’s parentage.   What, if any, difference does this make to our understanding of Estella’s character?   Why might Dickens have included these developments?  How does this connect to other motifs or themes in the novel?

Remember to include specific details from the novel to support your opinions and to respond to at least one other comment in this thread.

GE blog #17

 

46 thoughts on ““Surely I had seen exactly such eyes and such hands on a memorable occasion very lately!”

  1. In chapters 47-50 of Great Expectations we learn a lot about how Miss Havisham is related to Estella, if at all, and how Estella winded up with Miss Havisham. Magwitch is revealed to be Estella’s father and Molly, Mr. Jaggers’ servant, is her mother! It seems as if Molly and another woman were both in love with Magwitch. When Molly finds out that Magwitch may leave her for the other woman she threatens to kill their little girl to hurt Magwitch. This little girl is Estella. Molly is accused of murdering the other woman and Estella. Jaggers becomes her lawyer and wins his case. Molly from then on becomes Jaggers servant. Magwitch was fighting with Compeyson in the ditch because Compeyson let him get put into jail twice as long as him. Compeyson is also the one who conspired with Author, Miss Havisham’s brother, to get all her money. Compeyson is the one who jilted Miss Havisham at the altar. Now that we know this it makes us think how Estella isn’t that high in status. Her father is a convict and her mother is a servant. Pip still loves Estella anyway. He doesn’t think any different of her. This goes with the theme of love is blind. Even though Estella tells Pip not to love he still does. And now he loves her even though she isn’t highborn like he thought.

    • Great job Abby! I agree that now we know who her parents are, she isn’t as high and mighty as she thinks she is. By the way, I think you meant that Miss Havisham’s brother is Arthur, not Author.

    • Great response Abby, and thank you for clearing things up for me! I have been a little confused on what is happening with Compeyson, but your response made me understand

  2. In chapters 47 through 50, we learn many things about Estella’s parents, and how they connect to Estella and the themes in the novel Great Expectations by Charles Dickens. Estella’s mom is Molly, who is Mr. Jaggers’s housekeeper, and the “wild beast tamed”. We find out that she was tried for murder, and was proved not guilty. Mr. Jaggers, oddly enough, was her lawyer. It was a case of jealousy, which I think means that the people who convicted her were probably envious of her and her life. They wanted to see her be in pain. “ It was a case of jealousy. They both led trampling lives, and this woman…had been married very young…to a tramping man, and was a perfect fury in point of jealousy.”( pp. 393). This implies that the two women both had hard lives, but one felt that she should have been the one married to the man. “ The murdered woman – more a match for the man, certainly”( pp. 393). In the trial, Mr. Jaggers says that she had been through many hard times. She, apparently, tried to destroy her child, and that’s how she got the scars. Jaggers, however, turns that down. “ We say those are not marks of fingernails, but marks of brambles, and we show you the brambles.”( pp. 394). If her child was Estella, then would she have tried to destroy Estella? I think in part of her “taming”, Jaggers took away her daughter, Estella. Is this why Estella is so cold and has no heart? Anyway, Estella’s father is Provis, the convict. Very surprising! Molly told Provis that she was going to destroy their daughter, and that he was never going to see her again. Provis was very fond of Estella. “ On the evening of the very night….and swore that she would destroy the child ..and he should never see it again”( pp. 406). Why did Molly want to destroy Estella? Provis never mentioned to Pip that he had a daughter. He also loved her very much. Anyways, both of Estella’s parents are crooks. That is probably why she was given away by Jaggers. Dickens did this to tie everything together, and show how all the characters tie together. Does Molly know the presence of Provis? Does she know where Estella is, or vice versa. These new revelations raise many questions.

  3. Estella is a significant character in Great Expectations, however, her past had never been revealed, until now. Estella’s mother, Molly is Jagger’s servant and was accused of murdering another woman and Estella. Mr. Jagger was her lawyer at the time, and when Miss Havisham asked for a little girl to fill her sad soul, Mr. Jaggers brought Molly’s child to her, and she was named Estella. Turns out, Pip’s convict, Magwitch was is Estella’s father. “‘Do you remember the sex of the child?’ ‘Said to have been a girl.’” (page 394). This changes the way I view Estella, why would she be so mean to younger Pip if she didn’t come from a high status family? She would always insult Pip, saying that he has thick boots and coarse hands like a commoner. However, we now know that Estella, too, came to common parents. Her mother is a servant, and her father is a convict. This comes back to nature vs. nurture. Estella was never told about her biological parents, and so she doesn’t even know that her parents are commoners. Because she was raised by Miss Havisham, a rich and high class women, she acts and considers herself high class. After reading these four chapters, I slightly feel bad for Estella, she never really had a good childhood. Unlike Pip, she never had someone like Joe.

    • Great job! I love how you put in that Estella criticized Pip for being common when she was common herself. Do you think that Estella knows who her parents are?

      • No way that Estella knows her parentage, I mean, if she knew, I highly doubt she would’ve made fun of Pip when they were kids if she had known she’s worse than he is. Plus Miss Havisham said that Estella never remembered/learned who her parents were, she just knew she was adopted.

      • Ellie this is a really great response and I think that if Estella were to ever find out who her real parents were she would be shocked and probably wouldn’t accept them. You had a really good response Ellie I love how you used who her parents really were almost against Estella. Haha, great job!

    • In chapters 47-50 Estella’s parentage becomes known to Pip. Now we know that Estella wasn’t born high class. She was born common; with a convict as a father and a mother a servant who people say committed murder. Miss Havisham adopted her when she was very young. She told Mr. Jaggers that she wants a child to care for and raise, so he brought her Estella. Unfortunately, Miss Havisham did not raise her as she thought she had. Miss Havisham now feels guilty that Estella turned out the way she had. “What have I done!…when she first came to me, I meant to save her from misery like my own. At first I meant no more…But as she grew, and promised to be very beautiful, I gradually did worse, and with my praises, and with my jewels, and with my teachings…I stole her heart away and put ice in its place.”(399) The theme of nature vs. nurture is shown here. Miss Havisham wanted Estella to grow up to be a beautiful young lady who was kind and trustworthy, unlike Compeyson who jilted Miss Havisham. But Miss Havisham was controlled by grief and pain, and Estella turned out heartless and unsympathetic. But how would she have turned out differently if Magwitch and Molly had raised her? Would she have been raised as a criminal?

  4. The chapters we read today reveal many surprising revelations that Pip discovers about Estella’s parentage. At one point during Pip’s dinner with Mr. Jaggers, he realizes that Mr. Jaggers’ servant is actually Estella’s mother. “And I felt absolutely certain that this woman was Estella’s mother.” (pp. 391) It is also revealed that the woman had been tried for murder, but Mr. Jaggers saves her from execution. Now, she is indebted to him and becomes his housekeeper. Wemmick also confirms that her child was a girl. At Satis House, Miss Havisham tells Pip that she had been lonely, and asked Mr. Jaggers to bring an orphan for her to “rear and love”. Pip also wishes that Miss Havisham would try to undo what she had done to her. “But Estella is a different case, and if you can ever undo any scrap of what you have done amiss in keeping a part of her right nature away from her, it will be better to do that, than to bemoan the past through a hundred years.” (pp. 399) This helps us to understand more that it isn’t Estella’s fault that she is so heartless and cold. Indeed, Miss Havisham had “kept a part of her right nature away from her”. While Herbert is tending to Pip’s injuries, he tells him what Magwitch had revealed about his life. He had once been married to a young, vengeful, jealous woman who had been tried for murder. When Magwitch says he had a daughter, he knows that Magwitch is Estella’s father and that the woman was Estella’s mother. However, Magwitch thinks that she was destroyed by his wife. If she had been raised by Magwitch, she would have never been shaped into such a person. This relates to how having one thing happen in your life can change it forever. Or that one memorable day that started the first link of a chain of iron or gold. I think Dickens included these developments to advance the subject of Estella and her nature.

    • Great analysis, Tony! You had insightful ideas and backed them up nicely with evidence. I also agree and think that you illustrated the themes Dickens used in these chapters perfectly.

  5. Dickens just continues to surprise me in this novel and I love it! In tonight’s reading, we learn how several characters are connected. Magwitch and Molly (Mr. Jaggers servant) are Estella’s biological parents. Looking back, when I first read about Molly, and the mention of her hands, I briefly thought she may have been a criminal, but I NEVER thought she would have been Estella’s mother!! I also never suspected Magwitch to be Estella’s father. I believe this revelation really says a lot about Estella. Her parents both being criminals, suggests that Estella’s evil ways may have been innate in her. This leads me to ponder the theme of Nature vs. Nurture. Did Estella ever stand a chance, or was she doomed to be heartless? I cannot say as to whether Estella’s life would have been any better or worse had she been raised by her parents, but I am certain Miss Havisham’s influence impacted who she became. Miss Havisham’s quest for revenge led her to be a loveless and negative parent which only made Estella’s heart grow cold. While her parents may have given her the bad genes, it was Miss Havisham’s nurturing that showed her the means to be cruel. However, we do see a change in Miss Havisham’s character in tonight’s reading, too. She is so guilt ridden in what she has done, that she wants to redeem herself and obtain Pip’s forgiveness. She verbalizes to Pip “I am not all stone. But perhaps you can never believe, now, that there is anything human in my heart?”(page 396) She is truly remorseful for her past actions. In Pip forgiving Miss Havisham, we get a sense of maturity and a glimpse once again of the old Pip that I liked so much. If Miss Havisham can change, will Estella change, too? Will Pip’s love for Estella diminish now that he knows she is the child of a criminal? I cannot wait to see what happens in the next few chapters.

  6. In chapters 47-50 of Great Expectations by Charles Dickens, we the readers learn about Estella’s parentage. While finding this out, the theme of ultimate love is still portrayed. Pip realizes that Jaggers’ housekeeper, Molly looks just like Estella, and he later found out that Molly is Estella’s mother. Pip questions his friend about Molly, and he learns that she was accused of killing a woman over her common-law husband and of murdering her little daughter to hurt him. The text state,”…swore that she would destroy the child ..and he should never see it again”(pg. 406).This forces Pip to feel certain that Estella is that lost daughter. Molly acted this way because she was purely jealous over Magwitch. Later on, Herbert tells Pip the part of Magwitch’s story that the convict originally left out, the story of the woman in his past. The story matches that of Jaggers’ housekeeper, Molly. Magwitch, therefore, is Molly’s former common-law husband and Estella’s father! This confirms to Pip that Estella’s father is Magwitch and mother is Molly. In addition, this shows that Estella’s roots weren’t so noble and uncommon meaning she should have been close to Pip in social class if it weren’t for Miss Havisham. We know that Estella was adopted by Miss Havisham when she was two or three years old. Also, Estella’s parents both being crook/criminals add to Nature vs. Nurture theme and the coming of Estella’s personality and behavior. Furthermore, the theme of ultimate love is shown with Molly’s actions and Pip’s feelings that he still has for Estella. I wonder if Molly feels sorry at all and if she would be willing to reunite with Estella if she knows where they are.

    • Ajay, I love how you searched for the theme through out the chapters tonight, and the details you chose truly explained your thinking. Good job!

  7. Tonight’s reading had many revelations, and information that were revealed to the reader. “I looked at those hands, I looked at those eyes, I looked at that flowing hair; and I compared them with other hands, other eyes, other hair that I knew of…” (Page 390) Pip has concluded that Molly is Estella’s mother. He also finds out that Molly murdered a woman, and was represented by Jaggers in court. After the trial, she became his servant. But that is not all we learn about Molly. “And the man we have in hiding down the river, is Estella’s father.” (Page 408) Magwitch is Estella’s father, and was married to Molly. So Mr. Jaggers took Estella after the trial to Miss Havisham. Miss Havisham reveals the remorse and regret she has inside for the way she reared Estella. She stated that she wanted a child to love and fill the void in her life, but she feels that she ruined Estella’s heart. “…I stole her heart away and put ice in its place.” (Page 399) This definitely follows the motif of nature vs. nurture, because Miss Havisham wanted Estella to feel loved, but instead, she was raised to fell nothing. Then Pip walks around the courtyard, reminiscing all of the memories he had there, and he goes inside to check on Miss Havisham. He finds that her dress had caught on fire, and once Pip rescued her, she laid down on the table, the in which she said she’d be laid down when she died. Also, Mr. Wopsle saw Pip in the audience of his play, and he could’ve sworn that the other convict (Compeyson) was standing right behind Pip. “The more I think of him, the more certain I am of him.” (Page 386) And just something I’d like to discuss in class is the knowledge we have of the young man Magwitch mentions at the beginning of the novel. This is an ancient detail that we went over a month ago, but I was just wondering if he was still relevant.

    • Great Job! I love how you included the thought of that small detail maybe having a bigger meaning and how you used multiple quotes. Keep up the great work!

  8. It is revealed to us in the chapters 47-50, who Estella’s parents exactly are. We know that Molly, the housekeeper of Mr. Jaggers, is Estella’s mother. She had a sister who was in every respect just a little better than her, even though they both led equally prosperous lives. This created the most intense jealousy in Molly. She went so far as to murder her own sister. She was caught and tried. Mr. Jaggers just so happened to be her defending lawyer. She had many scars and signs of an apparent struggle with her sister, one of which is her scars on her wrists Jaggers shows Pip. We also know that Pip’s father is Magwitch. We already know that he was tied into devious and villainous plots with Compeyson for a majority of his life, and is caught early on, sent to prison then escapes, then is caught, and so forth. We also know that Mr Jaggers happened to be his lawyer for his last case. It really raises the question as to who really is the most powerful character in the novel. We would earlier assume it to be Miss Havisham, but now we know that even she committed some sort of crime and Jaggers defended her. Anyways, it is unknown how exactly this could have happened between Molly and Magwitch. It is also interesting to point out that Magitch appears to conceal this from everyone.

  9. In answer to why Jaggers is so requested, could it be that it is because there is and exorbitant amount of crime, and criminals to go with it, and the reason Jaggers is so sought after is because there simply aren’t any criminal defense attorneys around with the proper credentials, i.e. education/experience?

  10. One of Dickens classic coming of age novel, Great Expectations, had so many confusing yet interesting surprises in which weren’t expected. Throughout the whole book, Pip learns more and more. One thing that Pip learns more about in these chapters is Estella’s past. Dickens threw a big curve ball that surprised us when he said that Molly was Estella’s mom along with Magwitch being the biological father. I know WOW! Even better Pip is told why Estella was given up and how there was a theory that Molly almosted killed Estelles. This makes Pip feel bad for Estella because se wasn’t allowed to have a normal childhood and she had a target on her back. Although your childhood plays a big role in who you are today, Dickens might have included this to furthermore prove that life isn’t always easy and how Estella was rude because she was mimicking what happened in her childhood. In other words, Dickens is displaying the motif of change and how life is going to have ups and downs. For example on page 405 Herbert says, “get the bandage off so gradually that you shall not know when it comes” I believe that this is a metaphor for life and how it can go by quickly yet it can hurt. Also, like life bandages are easy to put on but hard to take off. This connects to other themes because it sums up life and all the other motifs such as love and abuse have to do with life.

    • I love how you were able to include that last part with the analogy of life and bandages. I didn’t even think of Dickens using that scene as imagery. Nice job and great analysis!

  11. Dickens reveals another revelation of connections between characters, and this time it is about Estella’s past and where she came about. We find out Estella’s parents, who are surprisingly found out to be Mr. Jagger’s housekeeper, Molly, and Pip’s convict, Magwitch. Now that we know that Estella came from a family of criminals, we might be able to question our previous ideas and interpretations of Estella’s personality. We now know that Estella was a common person, and had no right to look down on Pip. Unless she did not know who her parents were, which is also a possibility. We also are given another explanation for Estella’s cold character, and there are now questions about if Estella’s personality is solely due to Miss Havisham’s teachings, or if it is somewhat due to her parents. Pip also finds out the whole story behind the relationship between Molly, Magwitch, and Mr. Jaggers. Molly was extremely jealous of another woman, due to Magwitch being a better fit for her. Molly finds out that Magwitch could leave her for the other woman, and decided to threaten Magwitch with killing their daughter to hurt him. She is accused of murdering the other woman and the child, who is now known to be Estella. due to this, and this is where Mr. Jaggers comes into the story. He is the lawyer of Molly, and when she went to trial, Jaggers was able to have her be found not guilty. “The murdered woman – more of a match for the man, certainly…”(Pg. 393). This explains the ‘wild beast tamed’ and the wrists of Molly. Then, the connections between Magwitch, Molly and Estella are revealed. When Herbert and Pip are talking while Herbert is helping to heal Pip’s injuries, he says “…and you brought into his mind the little girl so tragically lost, who could have been about your age”(Pg. 407). Due to prior knowledge and other, earlier revelations, this is the final statement that Pip needs to make the connection that Magwitch is Estella’s father.

  12. In chapters 47-50 we learn who Estella’s mother and father are. Instead of focussing on both of them I’m only going to be bringing Estella’s mother, Molly, into the spotlight. Molly is the maid and housekeeper of Mr. Jaggers and she is what Wemmick once referred to as “the wild beast tamed”. Seeing Estella’s mother as a wild beast who had to learn to be civilized, might help bring out a trait that we see in Molly and therefore see in Estella as well. Molly most likely once had her own voice, although she doesn’t use it now because she has to be calm and respectful around Mr. Jaggers and all of his friends. Molly literally fought for her spot in this world and didn’t let others get in her way. Similarly, Estella also had her own voice and was very spirited. When she had had it with Miss Havisham and wanted to get out and be independent, she spoke about it and she ended up being able to do what she wanted. In a way, they are both “wild beasts tamed’ because they have both had points in their lives where they had to be respectful and listen to someone else, and they also had points in their life when they did only what they wanted to do. The only way they are different in this scenario is that for each of them, their “tamed” life and their “beast” life were switched. In the earlier half of Molly’s life she was able to do whatever she wanted and hurt whoever she could, when she got older that had to stop because she got a real job, and settled down with a job working for Mr. Jaggers. It was the other way around for Estella. Most of her childhood, Estella spent her days locked away in the house with a crazy lady, who loved her but wouldn’t win a mother of the year award. Estella followed her every direction and did anything she was told. But once she came of age, she had had enough with the life she was leading and started to rebel. She wanted to be her own person and not be afraid of taking the wrong step or making a mistake. As you can see, Estella and her mom had many similarities and now knowing that Molly is her mother, catching more facts like this will be easy.

      • I really like your response Ryan! It brought light to certain aspects that didn’t catch my eye. It helped that you only focused on Molly. Like Ellie said, I like how you compared Estella and Molly. Good job!

  13. In these chapters we learn a lot about Estella’s parentage. We find out that Molly, Jaggers housekeeper, is Estella’s mother. We also learn that Magwitch, Pips convict and benefactor, is Estella’s father. Both of Estella’s parents are criminals under the yes of the law. Molly was acquitted for murder and represented by Jaggers. Magwitch has been and in and out of jail for most of his life, and
    Is currently a fugitive but was also represented by Jaggers. It’s quite interesting and ironic that Estella someone who prides herself on not being common and being wealthy, has criminals for parents and who are also very common. Magwitch doesn’t even have a job and formerly was a Shepard and Molly is housekeeper. Yet all of Estella’s life she’s looked down on the poor, and her behavior made Pip resent being poor and common as well. It’s interesting how Estella is so pompous and flaunts her wealth but if she’d stayed with her parents she’d have been extremely poor. For as long as she’s been with Miss Havisham she’s seen herself as better than every one else because of her beauty, wealth and status, even though if she’s never been adopted she’d be very common and low class. I wonder how Drummle will react to the news of Estella’s parentage? Will he leave her because she doesn’t really come from wealth and status?

  14. Dickens really revealed new information in tonight’s reading. Pip visited Miss Havisham and asks what happened when she adopted Estella. She explains how Mr. Jaggars brought Estella to her when she was two or three. We later find out the parents of Estella, because it was unknown to even Miss Havisham. It is revealed Molly, Mr. Jaggars servant is Estella’s mother. Even more surprising, Magwitch is the father! “After the acquittal she disappeared, and thus he lost the child, and the child’s mother” (407) Magwitch explains how he had a child with a woman, and Pip put all the pieces of the puzzle together. “I know I am quite myself. And the man we have hiding down the river, is Estella’s father” (409). Dickens may have included these developments to show Estella really is from common parents, and she really is no better than Pip. This can add to the motif of how you were raised, because Estella was raised by Miss Havisham to be cold and heartless, when in reality her roots are from lower class people. Magwitch has made many mistakes, but he is a kind hard worker, and so is Molly.

    • I love how you concluded that Estella is not really better than Pip because of her parents. I think that is super important!

  15. In chapters 47-50 of Great Expectations, by Charles Dickens, we learn a lot about Estella’s past, and her parents past. In chapter 25 Wemmick tells Pip to “Keep your eye on it.” (referring to Jagger’s housekeeper) (Pg. 202). Since then I have had the suspicion that she was important, and we finally learned that she is Estella’s mother! In the housekeeper’s past she committed a crime and Jaggers was her lawyer. Jaggers convinced the jury that she was innocent and since then the housekeeper has worked for him. Why she works for him is unclear to me, but I am sure I will realize soon. Around the same time the housekeeper is tried ,Miss Havisham decides that she wants to raise a daughter to “save her from misery” (Pg. 399), and looks to Jaggers to find her a daughter and it just so happens that Jaggers’ housekeeper has a daughter- Estella. Along with the revelation of Estella’s mother, we find out that Magwitch is Estella’s father. The first thing that popped into my head after learning this was that Miss Havisham was going to marry Compeyson. If Compeyson hadn’t left Miss Havisham then Miss Havisham would have never adopted Estella, and Estella’s father is Magwitch who hates Compeyson. I have no idea what importance this has to the conclusion of the story, but I have a feeling that it will be important.

  16. In chapters 47-50, we learn a lot about Estella’s past. We find out that Estella’s parents are Molly and Magwitch! Two convicts! Who’s all superior and high-and-mighty now?! Honestly, I find Estella to be a HUGE hypocrite. I mean, seriously, she was always teasing Pip for being ‘lower’ than she was, and how common he was. But it turns out that Estella is even worse off than Pip. After all, convicts are literally the worst you can get on the scale of social classes back then. And I really think that this ties in with a lot of past ideas. Nature vs. nurture is clearly represented here. If Estella was raised by both Molly and Magwitch, how would she have turned out. Would she get Magwitch’s honesty that he later finds in his life, or his ambition, or would she get Molly’s jealousy? No one can really tell for sure. This just goes to show that who you’re raised by is more important than who your parents are. Miss Havisham raised Estella to be beautiful and coldhearted and superior. If she was raised by other people, she may have not been that way. Estella’s parentage also shows appearance vs. reality. When she was a child, and even now, she acted as if she was above others. Even without knowing anything else about Estella, the reader would most likely be able to infer that she is in the upper class, based on her behavior. Reality shows that Estella is as low as can be, even if she is wealthy. Chapters 47-50 also demonstrate a theme of guilt and shame, but not through Estella’s parentage. When Pip goes to visit Miss Havisham, she’s all apologetic and weepy. She realizes that in trying to make sure that what happened to her doesn’t happen to Estella, what happened to her may be similar to what happened to Pip. After his declaration of love to Estella a few chapters back, we see that Miss Havisham is mortified that her actions could hurt another in such a way, especially Pip. Then when Pip says that he understands how her misery and anger sucked her into her current state, and that he cannot blame her for what happened, Miss Havisham was touched. Now, fast-forwarding back to tonight’s reading, we see that Miss Havisham was truly remorseful. She hated what Pip had to experience and was able to relate to that, and literally goes on her knees and begs him for forgiveness. In conclusion, chapters 47-50 have demonstrated recurring themes in the novel.

    • Wow! You really have a great point emphasizing that she mocks Pip for being lower class when she in fact should be lower. However, I doubt she knows her past since she was only with them until she was about 2. That may be why she thinks she is of “high class”

  17. In these chapters we learn how Estella was obtained by Miss Havisham, and who estella as. Miss Havisham, actually has no married, or blood relation to Estella, but rather, was given to her kind of like a gift. Estella is the daughter of Magwitch, and Molly, Mr. Jagger’s house servant. Molly and Magwitch were in love, but there was someone better than Molly for Magwitch. So, Molly killed the other women and was tried for it. She was found innocent because of Mr. Jagger’s great arguments, he did actually win a case!! Then Moly became the housekeeper for Mr. Jaggers right after. Earlier Miss Havisham had asked mr. Jaggers fro a girl that she could raise to not end up the same way that she, Miss Havisham, had after she was left alone by her lover. As it turns out, Mr. Jaggers gave the child of Magwitch, and Molly to Miss Havisham, and she was named Estella. Interestingly enough, this means that Estella wasn’t actually supposed to be such a high class figure. Her father is a convict, always has been. And her mother ended up as a murderer and a housekeeper. Estella only became the snob she is today, because that’s how Miss Havisham raised her. And now Pip knows this, yet he still loves her all the same. And I think I would love her even more, because I would know that it isn’t her fault that she is the way she is, and that she wasn’t always a lady, just like Pip wasn’t always a gentleman.

  18. After reading chapters 47 through 50 we have discovered Estella parentage and true class. Instead of being born into the noble class or being a relative or Miss Havisham we discover EStella was actually adopted by Miss Havisham at the age of 2 or 3. Estella’s parents weren’t anything near noble both criminals. Her mother is Mr Jagger’s maid Molly with the father being Provis. Estella’s mom was tried for murder on the case the made Mr Jagger’s famous. Molly also ended up hating Provis and later threatened to kill their little girl(Estella) whom Provis loved dearly. “The young woman presented herself before Provis, and swore that she would destroy the child(which was in her possession)(Page 406).” However this wasn’t the reason she was a said murderer. “There was another and a stronger woman who was the victim, there has been a struggle-in a barn(Page 406).” With both of Estella’s parents being criminal’s instead of being born high class as we might have previously expected Estella was born coarse and common. At the beginning with the novel Pip is obsessed with being a gentleman in order to win over Estella. “I want to be a gentleman(Page 127).” Now that Pip found out Estella isn’t high class he might now regret earlier decisions he made. If Pip had known this earlier he might not have accepted Mr Jaggers offer to come to London and become a gentleman. This one piece of information about Estella could have dramatically changed the course of the novel. This falls under the motif about social class. Pip does all these things to rise to her level but she was always at his. Now Estella doesn’t know this and so lives under the pretense of being born noble. E find out that Dickens has twisted the story so that some of our foundation of this novel has just been twisted beneath us into a stage where he can put together the pieces of the story.

  19. I like what you said. However what you said at the end about liking Estella more intrigues me. Now that Estella is more down to earth and isn’t as hard to reach would’t that take away from the novelty of achieving her? However since Estella is now married to Drummle this could just be something he could use to laugh at or possible antagonize Drummle, this is unlikely because Pip is probably more civilized then that but we can hope.

  20. Reading Chapters 47-50, it sheds a light on Estella’s background and who she really is. Her mother is Molly. We meet her in Volume II and she seems very depressed. Also we see the scars and marks on her hands. We could’ve only guessed what it was back then but now we know. She was acquitted for murder for a woman and her child. And correct me if I’m wrong. She hired Jaggers to be her lawyer and he won. It explains how that case made Jaggers who he is today. Instead of going to prison she would serve as Jagger’s servant. Now she was “tamed”. Her husband was also Provis, the father of Estella. Now, Provis/Magwitch loved Estella. However, Molly wanted to hurt Provis, and the only way to do that was to hurt Estella. But before she could do that, Jaggers brought her to Miss Havisham. There she was brought up as a woman of high social class. Ironically, she was never born as a woman of high social class. She was brought into it. It was forced upon her. All of Pip’s childhood, he looked on her as an idol but now she is just as coarse and common as Pip. She is no different. Both of her parents are criminals. She must have had a sad childhood. If you compare it to Pip’s, he had a better one because he had his best friend, Joe.

    • Great job! I never had thought of it that way. Also, it was never told if they were married, so while they had a baby together, they probably never even got engaged.

  21. In Chapters 47-50, we learn a lot about Estella’s life. In the beginning, we thought that Estella was a snobby brat, and she even acts like one still today. Then, as the story continues, we learn a lot more about her life BEFORE Miss Havisham. In Chapter 48, Pip went to dinner with Mr. Jaggers and Wemmick. During the dinner, he starts to notice things about Molly, Mr. Jagger’s housekeeper. Her face and the way she acts starts to seem familiar to Pip. Then, he notices what he was thinking: all of her features made him think of Estella! Everything about Molly reminded him of Estella. From his observations, he made a conclusion, that Molly was Estella’s mother. It happens that she was tried for murder, for the killing of a woman and her child. Mr. Jaggers was her lawyer, and from his cases, eventually, she was acquitted. She was in debt to him, so she became his housekeeper. We learn in Chapter 49 that Estella was brought to Miss Havisham by Mr. Jagger, which would make sense, since we soon learned that she wanted to get rid of the baby. We are shocked from Pip’s findings. Never would I have thought of Molly as her mother. Yet, when we thought we’ve seen everything, in Chapter 50 we learn that Provis is Estella’s father! How absurd is that! Estella is the daughter of two criminals. It makes me question what is Estella’s true personality. Miss Havisham said she took her heart and replaced it with ice. If that is so, then what is the real Estella truly like? From what I know, she would be a lovely, but tough woman who is selfless, but can be a tad jealous at times. Whatever it may be, it was clouded by her rough childhood, causing her to be the woman she is, at least showing a little bit of compassion. I think that Dickens put this part of the story to learn more about Estella’s past. He seems to enjoy telling us about the characters’ backstory. Honestly, I think that Pip may not be then only main character. Everything in Pip’s story seemed to revolve around Estella. Pip’s convict, Pip’s personality, Pip’s life was a ll in someway related to Estella. I feel like, in Pip’s point of view, that he wrote about how Estella had changed his entire life. Even Pip says that several times in the book. I hope to learn more on Estella’s and Pip’s behalf.

    • Abigail, I love how you went all the way back to the part about Pip’s initial realization of Molly being Estella’s mother, and how you gave your own input about what you think Estella would be like if she wasn’t raised by Miss Havisham. Wonderful response!!

  22. Chapters 47-50 give us a lot of insight on Estella’s upbringing. In order, we have who Estella’s mother MAY be, Miss Havisham raising her, and where she is now. Molly, Jaggers’ servant, reminds Pip of Estella knitting for some weird reason. “And I felt absolutely certain that this woman was Estella’s mother.”(pg.391) Molly was supposedly thought to have murdered her daughter, and Magwitch seems to believe that theory, but it seems that nowhere has the body of that child (who happens to be a girl) has been found. This is old news, but certainly it can prove that Estella is indeed Molly’s daughter who is still alive but has just been hiding. Also, Miss Havisham keeps on repeating “What have I done?”(pg.398-399) Just because of our conversation in class of Nature Vs. Nurture, I think that at this point it’s clear that Miss Havisham had raised Estella to be the cold hearted person and now regrets it. However, I would like to wonder if maybe it’s also in Estella’s nature to be cold since her mother supposedly attempted to kill her. Any thoughts?

  23. We obtain some interesting new information about Estella’s parentage in chapters 47 through 50, and it gives better insight into her character. We learn that Molly, Jaggers’ servant, is Estella’s biological mother, and Provis is her father. This is incredibly surprising, because when you think of Estella, the last things you would think of are escaped convicts and murderers. Molly is revealed to have been very jealous and revengeful before Jaggers “tamed” her. She had been charged with the murder of another woman and of her child, but she was acquitted thanks to Jaggers being her lawyer. I’m a bit confused as to why Molly was so jealous towards the woman she murdered, and what exactly the scratches on her arms are from. Jaggers’ words almost seemed contradictory of themselves and it was very confusing when he was talking to the jury about where the scratches came from. Anyway, Provis was very attached and loving towards the child (Estella), and he was heartbroken when the mother told him that she had “destroyed” the child. “‘Did the woman keep her oath?’ ‘There comes the darkest part of Provis’s life. She did.’” (pg. 406) We now know that she did not, in fact, destroy the child, because Estella is still alive and well. On another note, it is quite ironic that Estella has such low parentage, because of how poorly she used to treat Pip about his “commonness.” This ties into the idea of “Nature versus Nurture,” because Estella has been brought up by Miss Havisham to be cold and unloving, where as if she had been brought up by her actual mother or father, her life and personality would be very different from how it is now. Estella is who she is all because of outside influence, seeing as she doesn’t seem to display characteristics that would be caused by her actual parentage.

  24. In chapters 47, 48, 49, and 50 of the coming-of-age novel, “Great Expectations”, by Charles Dickens, Pip uncovers a major revelation about Estella’s parentage. Molly, Jagger’s housemaid is Estella’s mother. “And I felt absolutely certain this is woman was Estella’s mother.” (pp. 391). Because Pip observes Molly so carefully, he is able to deduce that she is Estella’s mother. Just so that Molly can hurt her husband she, “…swore that she would destroy the child ..and he should never see it again” (pp. 406). This shows that Molly hates her husband so much that she would kill Estella to make him suffer. Also, Pip uncovers that Magwitch is Estella’s father. “And the man we have in hiding down the river, is Estella’s father.” (pp. 408). This shows that Magwitch is Estella’s father since Magwitch was the man hiding down the river. They are both criminals. This means that Estella should not have got to insult Pip by calling him a “common” boy because she was even lower than Pip. She was the daughter of two criminals. If Pip originally met Estella when she was still with Magwitch and Molly, Pip might not have tried to be uncommon. Maybe Pip would still be living with Joe and Biddy. What is going on back at the marshes? Does Miss Havisham actually try to burn herself( I am a little confused)? If so, why (I am a little confused on that too)?

  25. In tonight’s reading Estella’s unknown past is finally revealed and many connections are made between characters. It all was revealed when Pip went to dine at Mr. Jaggers. There he realized traits in Molly the servant that are relevant in Estella. He came to the realization that Molly was in fact Estella’s birth mother. “And I felt absolutely certain that this woman was Estella’s mother.” (pp. 391) We later find out that Molly threatened to kill Estella over jealousy with Magwitch. Who is later revealed to be Estella’s father. Mr. Jaggers then took Estella into Miss Havisham’s care and that was who she was raised with for the rest of her life. This all means that Estella isn’t as high or uncommon as she think she is. Her mother is a servant and her father is a convict. Estella is actually somewhat lower than what Pip would have been if he never became a gentleman. However even finding all this out Pip still loves her. This brings up the concept of Love is blind. Pip truly loves Estella so he doesn’t care where she comes from or who she is. Another concept this all made me think of was nature vs nurture. I wonder if Miss Havisham raised Estella to be heartless or was just in her nature from her birth parents. All in all we find out who Estella truly is.

  26. In chapters 47-50 we find out about Estella’s parentage. We find out that Provis and Mr.Jaggers’s maid are Estella’s parents. O find it a little ironic because her parents were both very poor and she was raised by Miss Havisham, a very rich woman, and grew up to be spoiled. She was supposedly “destroyed” by her mother. Her mother was put to trial for murder, but was acquitted. I think if Estella found out, it would be humbling for her. I think this is an example of the theme of change, How Estella went from having a very rich adopted mother, to poor parents who both committed crimes. Estella would have to accept her real parents.

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